As a royal psalm, Psalm 85 celebrates and explores the relationship between God and David, God’s covenant with David. It talks about the crowning of David and his sons, the high expectations of kingship.
Royalty today have been trained since being small children how to cope in certain situations. This reading goes on to look at the special relationship between God and the Davidic kings who are considered God’s sons, and God’s unbreakable promise. The King as the head of the Church of England, and one who upholds the religion within Scotland, a key difference, has a relationship with God, allowing him to contribute to its work.
For the most part, these psalms were written about real kings, often at special times like enthronement or weddings, or in perilous times when the king was in danger.
If we think about the King of England, the King of the Scots, who has just had time off royal duties due to illness, they don’t really appear to have much power. Then they become a figure head, who the church looks to, perhaps, in times of ceremonies etc. Although he doesn’t appear to play a part in its everyday life.
Do we play a part in the everyday life of church, or just think that church is
only important on high days and holidays?
The passage speaks of a ‘home’. Perhaps that ‘home’ is more than the church but where we are.
By the time of the completed psalter, these psalms were no longer about living kings. Instead, the royal psalms had become about the promise of a messianic king who was to come, the leader of God’s future kingdom. For this reason, the royal psalms are very often important for the writers of the New Testament… they point to Jesus…particularly important in the time of Advent.
Psalm 89 begins by praising the firmness of God’s steadfast love and faithfulness as in God’s covenant with David. This covenant is “forever” and “for all generations”.
and is surrounded by lazy seals and curious penguins.
Do we see church for future generations or just for now. It could reach a point where it becomes so distant from the ordinary person’s reality, that people no longer see a purpose in belonging or going to church.
I wonder what our thoughts are on that?
I spoke with some neighbours recently about the work of the church. Their questions were, “what do you talk about for an hour on Sunday?”. The concept of what we do in ‘church’ and what those outside think that church does has diverged remarkably. Has that impacted upon how they perceive ‘the church’?
And, within church, we have folk who may consider that ‘attending church’ is the be all and end all, the key facet of being a Christian: is that it?
What if we were to be located in a remote location, one where the church, as we understand it,
was miles away. One where the days of the week blur as into one,
where even Sunday is unremarkable, not different to any other;
how will our Christian faith be seen?
I invite you to watch this video by Matthew West entitled ‘Do Something’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_RjndG0IX8
Will it be evident through what we do, how we share with others, and, importantly, are very being?
I enjoyed the dialogue
Going to church can also mean labeling people as “good” people, thus providing churchgoers with a good reputation and social status. In some worlds where marriage is the main purpose of life and arranged marriages are prevalent, church is an easy means for parents to find this “good” life partner for their children 🙂 Social status could depend on whether you go to church every Sunday. The church can also be a place of gossip for some.
On the positive side, a church is something that helps people within and outside the church. It’s a place of worship where we feel the presence of God. A church is a community where we can socialize and support each other. You can make friends, feel a sense of belonging, and build a support network that you can rely on. The church community helps us to “mourn with those that mourn and comfort those that stand in need of comfort”.
I would push back on the concept that church is the building. It might be far better thought of as a village.
As we can see in the US currently, church is used as a political vehicle. The political desires of a few point the church where they want it to go. Whereas what drives the church, in reality, is the message of Jesus. Sermon on the Mount etc which I’ll focus upon on Sunday.
Far too often we use church for our own purposes. It’s time again to turn over some tables
I think it depends on the kind of world you are in. For a world that has a thick population and many religions, you cannot imagine a church without a building. It can be quite chaotic as it’s difficult to focus with so much noise around.
Heard that the Apostle Thomas came through the Indian Ocean to a state called Kerala, which happens to be my parents’ hometown. People, mostly of Hindu origin, accepted Christ during this time and adopted Christianity. However, Apostle Thomas was killed when he moved towards North India. Likewise, even today, missionaries get killed.
However, in the case where you don’t have a church near you, if you are lucky you will find a few like-minded people who will then have bible studies and even church service at someone’s place. There are examples of such groups in Bangalore. This group gradually increases in number and then forms a church.
can we imagine that in the future we might forsee a group of people being Christlike, operating from multiple houses, and meeting the needs of those within and outside of their group – but not have a church building per se?
What benefits might that have?
(Topic for Thursday?)
I have a lot to comment related to this idea. But I think I will get back home and comment on it later today 🤔. I will be heading to woodlands soon and am keeping you in prayers 🙏.
I think the idea of small groups coming together for Sunday worship would be a good idea when a church building is not a possibility.
In the world that I come from, the churches are flourishing with new buildings / extended buildings, just as many of them are burnt down by hate groups now and then. Although there is no King / Queen or government there that supports church buildings or Christianity for any political reasons, Christians around the world are making contributions to building new churches (buildings). Also, there is never a condition where there is a shortage of people attending these churches, as it’s not just the older generation that attend church, but the younger generations are drawn towards attending the Sunday schools with parents playing a big role in influencing/encouraging the children, just as education is mandatory. So, basically, unlike in the western world, you will find in the church all generations of people and there is no concept of churches getting closed.
The reason why small groups are still formed is – sometimes people do not find a service in their preferred language, or they don’t find a church with their preferred denomination in the place where they live. It could also be that they broke away from their own church and formed a new group, which later on became a new denomination.
The benefit of a church having a building is that it enables a greater number of people from even distant places to come together under one roof to worship. To a traveler, it enables him/her to have a quiet place to converse with God. I remember, once I found my own church open during a weekday, on the way to take some important exam, and I went in to pray, and I found peace. Being a member of the church, it used to be like my second home, where I could just park my car whenever I wanted and walk away to some places.
On the other hand, small groups forming churches is excellent for people who have mobility issues or live remotely. So, in the world I come from, we do have bible studies that are held by these groups at some church member’s house based on the weekly pre-planned schedule, supplementing the church services.
As far as getting help from the community is concerned, I would say, from my experience, that it all depends on the people themselves and does not depend on whether they are worshiping in a church building or in small groups. We might sometimes find an atheist or a person from another religion helping us much better than our Christian groups. We never know whom God sends to help us when we need it.
I saw this as a post on Threads today
“The idea that a church has died because they cannot afford to upkeep their building is a ridiculous understanding of church.”
This speaks volumes of the point I’m trying to make. If there is a building we can find that as the focus, whether that to find a spiritual home – as you described; or as a focal point for hated – which you mentioned.
However, without such a material focal point – which costs a lot of money to maintain, the people can
still do so much.
Without the non-essential building, we might wish to consider whether our drive to act Christlike comes from our faith or that allegience to represent the church as seen in the building.
How does that sound?
I will reply to this thread later. Today I have my family visiting me from England.
I agree that it’s not correct to represent the church as seen in the building, and also believe in the fact that a church should not die if there is no building. Absolutely true.
However, I think a church building need not be expensive and can be based on what the congregation can afford to have in order to bring all of them together under the same roof, rather than segregating them into different groups as if the denominations were not enough. In most cases, the reason for not being able to afford a building is when people stop coming to church, especially the younger generation. The larger the congregation, the better the affordability of a church building.
Church building may be non-essential, but it helps to bring a greater number of people together under the same roof, especially when there is a need to stand together for a social cause in the world where Christians are a minority. A church building can be owned by the church, but someone’s residence where church service is held cannot be owned by the entire church. People have memories associated with a church building.
Besides, someone’s residence for church service may not always work when the neighbors around have people from other religions, and they may not want to hear anything like a hymn or prayer or any form of noise. I think having Christ-like faith is not dependent on if church buildings exist or not, but solely depends on the people.